Author Topic: How to Calculate the odds.  (Read 3791 times)

donfromtexas

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How to Calculate the odds.
« on: October 16, 2005, 08:47:22 PM »
Here is another way to look at the ODDS

Calculating Pot Odds in No Limit Texas Holdem
(Calling with a Flush Draw, Straight Draw, etc.)

After the flop, your play will depend on many factors, including information gathered pre-flop, what you know of your opponents and how they play, and the probabilities of having or making the best hand. If you have hit top pair with a strong kicker on the flop, then you have a strong hand and should bet at the pot. But the more difficult scenario is when you have flopped a flush draw or a straight draw, or perhaps an inside straight draw with two over cards. If someone bets, should you make the call?

At this point, it is important to first surmise what your opponent's hand is. Then, you must calculate the number of outs you have to make your hand the winning hand. The final step is to then understand the probabilities of hitting one of your outs, giving you the winning hand. These are all crucial steps in the decision making process.

For example, let's say I am holding JT offsuit.
The flop comes A 8 9 - rainbow.
The pot is current at $8.00, and Player1 bets $2.00. Everyone else folds.

Should I make the call?

Well, first I should think about what he may be holding. Let's say there was no pre-flop raise and Player1 is in early postion. He may have a pair of Aces with no kicker, or maybe a pair of 9's.

So, if I put him on a pair of Ace's, then I would need either a 7 or a Q to complete my straight and win the hand. Therefore, I have 8 outs - the four 7's in the deck plus the four Q's in the deck.

Now, if I have 8 outs, here is the calculation of hitting one of my cards on the turn or river:

There are 47 cards left unseen (I'm holding 2, there are 3 on the board, 52-5= 47). 47 - 8 outs = 39.

My calculation becomes: 1 - 39/47 (turn) * 38/46 (46 cards unseen prior to river):

1 - 39/47 * 38/46 = 31.5%

I have a 31.5% chance to hit my hand over the turn and river.

Now back to our scenario, I have to call a $2.00 bet to win what will be a $12.00 pot. Since my bet is only about 17% of the pot, yet I have a 31.5% chance of winning (across the turn & river card!), the "pot odds" justify making the call.

Now let's say Player1 bets $12 instead of $2. I would have to call $12 to win what will be a $32 pot. My bet is 37.5% of the pot, greater than my odds of hitting one of my outs, and therefore I should fold (we will get to implied odds further down).

The above scenarios are important to grasp. Picture yourself on the flip side now. Let's say you have a pair of Aces, and you do not want to allow someone to out draw you. You should do exactly what was outlined above - bet more than their odds would justify. If you bet the amount of the pot, then those chasing the straight (or the flush for that matter) are not getting proper pot odds to call, so you either force them to fold, or you force them to play incorrectly and chase a hand when they are betting against the odds. Your bet can help cause your opponents to make mistakes and incorrectly play their flush draw or straight draw.

So, how are you supposed to calculate your probabilities on the fly in the heat of battle... without a calculator? You don't. Memorize the below chart!!


Number of Outs                  Percentage of Hitting on either Turn or River
1                               4.4
2                               8.4
3                               12.5
4 (Inside straight draw)        16.5
5                               20.3
6 (Two overs)                   24.1
7                               27.8
8 (Open ended straight draw)    31.5
9 (Flush draw)                  35.0
10                              38.4
11                              41.7
12 (Flush draw + Gut shot)      45.0
13                              48.1
14                              51.2
15 (Straight Flush draw)        54.1
16                              57.0
17                              59.8
18                              62.4



Number of Outs                  Percentage of Hitting on River
1                               2.2
2                               4.3
3                               6.5
4 (Inside straight draw)        8.7
5                               10.9
6 (Two overs)                   13.0
7                               15.2
8 (Open ended straight draw)    17.4
9 (Flush draw)                  19.6
10                              21.7
11                              23.9
12 (Flush draw + Gut shot)      26.1
13                              28.3
14                              30.4
15 (Straight Flush draw)        32.6
16                              34.8
17                              37.0
18                              39.1    


Memorize these figures (particularly the first chart), they will help you justify your calls. Now, the above scenarios were pretty simplified. There are other, more advanced, factors to potentially consider. For example, if you do not hit your card on the turn, can you assume Player1 will bet again and how much? If you know this information, this should also be included in your calculation of the bet vs. pot amounts.

Let's say you know Player1 will probably bet another $4 on the turn. So really, you are looking at calling $6.00 against a pot of $16.00. The percentage now is 37.5% (6/16) as opposed to our earlier example where it was 17%. In this case, the call isn't as clear and the current pot odds don't quite justify the call because 37.5% is greater than our 31.5%. However, there are implied odds to consider, and these odds may justify making this call.

This the last factor that is important to consider - implied odds. In the game of no-limit holdem, you potentially could win a much larger pot than the current pot you are calculating your odds against. If you do hit your hand, could you then bet the entire pot amount and assume Player1 will call? How much of a bankroll does Player1 have and is it possible to take it all on this hand? These are interesting questions and also can affect your decision. The total pot size at the very end of the hand, could easily justify making the call in the hopes of winning that pot. This is called "implied odds" and should also be considered.

Now go play and try incorporating this knowledge. I would say good luck, but luck is the enemy of a good player. Better yet, good pot odds!

HoldemPokerPlyr

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2005, 06:59:15 AM »
"Now back to our scenario, I have to call a $2.00 bet to win what will be a $12.00 pot. Since my bet is only about 17% of the pot, yet I have a 31.5% chance of winning (across the turn & river card!), the "pot odds" justify making the call"


Now, a good question would be.

Is there an easier way- or a faster way- to figure out the percentage of the pot?

-HoldemPokerPlyr

donfromtexas

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2005, 08:02:40 AM »
Quote from: "HoldemPokerPlyr"
Now, a good question would be.

Is there an easier way- or a faster way- to figure out the percentage of the pot?

-HoldemPokerPlyr



Bring a calculator to the table  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

No, seriously, its all math if you want to play the odds... sometimes I do and sometimes I dont, it still all depends on the table and how everyone has been playing.

Superdad6

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2005, 11:07:52 PM »
I believe what you meant to say is double your outs and multiply by 2

e.g. in Dons example he has 8 outs, double that to get 16, multiply by 2 and you have 32% where Don got the more accurate 31.5% but I believe that this way is close enough for the table. Especially online where you don't have much time to calculate.
<div>FEAR MY SHORTSTACK!</div><br />

beantown

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pot odds
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2006, 02:55:41 PM »
that's great advice,I will memorize that chart becau it may make the difference between being a good player & a great player.thanks so much

jsaw

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2006, 10:56:56 AM »
Don's chart is required reading for anyone who is a student of the game.
In addition to pot and hand odds a general knowledge of Expect Value (EV) will also help.  Mike Caro's site includes a good discussion on EV - which is much more relevant ot ring games.  His research based on over 500000 actual hands provides the expect return on investment for pre-flop poker hands.  I think some will be surprised by the results of this research.

5thStBully

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2006, 10:52:49 AM »
thanks superdad, that sure makes things easier and alot quicker.
"Never confuse a single defeat with a final defeat"

ArchiRoark

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2006, 05:39:40 PM »
What about people that don't play pot odds and simply bet and bet.  I get frustrated sometimes because I have the better hand, and bet appropriately, yet they bet with a crap hand, get lucky and win. (And, I do mean a crap hand!)

tinheads

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2007, 02:42:30 PM »
Quote from: "ArchiRoark"
What about people that don't play pot odds and simply bet and bet.  I get frustrated sometimes because I have the better hand, and bet appropriately, yet they bet with a crap hand, get lucky and win. (And, I do mean a crap hand!)

thats why it's called gambling, the odds may favour u but it' seldom 100%

Pkerexp

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2007, 08:25:58 PM »
those percentage always confuse me

talkpkr2me

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2007, 09:44:54 AM »
I have never been able to take the time and study more about pot odds....At the table,with only so many seconds and the fact that I'm usually on 2-3 tables,its just too much for me....I just count my outs,and make my decision...Though anyone serious about poker really should take the time to learn this better..

bustyouraa

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2007, 08:02:37 AM »
Thanksl for the info Don.

cajinstorm

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2008, 06:53:57 PM »
Great info. This is what I need to get to the next level.

mingls1

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2008, 10:02:41 AM »
Great info, thanks donfromtexas
that sure makes things easier and alot quicker :D

umfrange

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How to Calculate the odds.
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2008, 12:26:58 AM »
this is so helpful! Thank you guys VERY MUCH!